More ST70, & the calibration conundrum
Thanks to a loan by the good John Gass of his test SeaTalk wind sensor, I’ve now got a Raymarine ST70 Wind Pod plugged into the lab’s ever expanding NMEA 2000 experiment. The Pod can supposedly gateway “any standard Raymarine wind transducer” onto SeaTalkNG and it was pleasing to see that it does indeed put out a standard NMEA 2000 Wind Data message (PGN 13036). All the displays read it fine. And, as suggested above, the ST70 has splendid graphic calibration and diagnostic facilities that work with the pod and sensor. You can correct the vane offset and apply a speed correction factor, either via an underway guided routine or manually. The ST70 can also query the components for model and serial numbers, software and hardware editions, even node voltage.
All that calibration happens over the network but that does not mean that the process is standardized and hence cross-manufacturer like the data is. The Maretron DSM250 instrument can not calibrate the SeaTalk wind sensor, and the ST70 can not calibrate the Maretron wind sensor, though either will show wind data from either sensor. I wrote a long comment about this recently, and it will surely be an ongoing issue for people trying to mix things up a bit. One thing to note is that the calibration lives in the sensor; you can, for example, set everything up with the ST70, unplug it, and all the displays will still see calibrated data. So I suppose an installer can use his own Maretron DSM250 or ST70 to setup sensors, but that means a trip back to a yard if you need to re-calibrate. As I wrote in that comment, this conundrum is is pretty much the way it is with all NMEA 2000 gear right now, though there’s hope that at least simple calibrations will become standardized. In fact, further down that thread you’ll see chatter about the Garmin GMI 10’s ability to calibrate other manufacturer’s gear. Well, I just got one hooked up and, by gosh, it will set a keel offset on the Maretron DST100, but that’s it, and that depth/speed/temp sensor has three other possible calibrations. The GMI is neat, more next week, but definitely running first generation software. The screen below, full size here, was taken before the GMI was added but does show what sensors are on the network and the ST70 Pod in action.
Very disappointing. I know that some manufacturers, like Offshore Systems, consider their calibration routines to be a proprietary selling point. And in the case of non-linear tanks that may be true.
But basic speed, depth, temperature? When the transducers are all made by Airmar anyway and are probably almost identical?
Is this the last vestige of vendors trying to prevent the mix/match we’re all expecting from N2K? Don’t the mfgs realize that if they make their equipment difficult to integrate, while another is easy to integrate, we’ll all take the path of least resistance? Wouldn’t they rather we spend our money on equipment than installer hours / dollars?
I hope you can show us a picture of the GMI’s wind page with input from either ultrasonic wind/weather transducers.
Ben, can you tell me if the ST70 will display windspeed and direction from the seatalk network?
I have a perfectly good st60 wind display, I want to add an st70 below decks, so I’d like the anemometer to stay plugged into the st60 and then have the 70 display it.
Aaron, I haven’t tried that directly, because I don’t have an ST60 head, but I’m pretty sure an ST70 will display any information available on the ST60 its connected with. I think that information also gets sent out over the STng (N2K) backbone the ST70 would also be plugged in to. I don’t know if the sensor calibration works through an ST60 head like it does through a Pod, but suspect yes.
Sandy, I will take some pictures of the GMI 10 with Maretron wind data, but don’t get your hopes up too high. The unit can display some data gorgeously, like you see in the ads, but other data types, wind included, and the whole screen paging and customizing system, still need lots of work.
I’m hopeful that N2K PC interfaces will mature and become the common element for management of a complex N2K system. Connect your sensor to the network. Connect your display to the network. Load up the manufacturer calibration/management software on your N2K connected PC and set everything up. Troubleshoot your N2K sensor or display through a PC. Forget doing everything through small displays with little buttons like the ST70, or dealing with proprietary systems like a Garmin or Raymarine chartplotter. Those can continue to do what they do well and focus on what they were designed for. Let the PC act as your central management point and I’ll be a happy camper!
In an ideal world, when you buy a Brand X sensor it would come with a PC program to calibrate it or else one would be available on the internet. Expecting Brand Y to support Brand X units is hit and miss. The missing link is a two-way bridge to the PC. The Maretron USB100 is close, but can non-Maretron programs use it? Panbo has mentioned a possible Intelligent Gateway. Not much intelligence is required; the gateway can just move the binary data to/from the NMEA 2000 bus to the PC (USB, ethernet, …) and the PC can handle it from there. Quite simply actually. It needs to be able to move data both ways though, which I suspect means that NMEA would never approve it.
Ben, can you tell me if the ST70 will display windspeed and direction from the seatalk network?
Can i try??
_1st conect the windsensor to a st70 pod
_2nd from the pod to the st 70 by n2k
_3d from the st70 to the st 60 by a special conecto having a n2k(st ng) conector in one end and a seatalk conector in the other end (or conecting red_shield_yelow from one end of the st ng to the st slot of st 60)
Don, I tried the pod way and the wind data went everywhere fine. However, the pod is quirky about how it identifies itself on my test network and could possibly get into address conflict situations. It didn’t seem to matter if the pod was plugged into the ST70 or teed in elsewhere on the network.
The ST70 is quite stable on the network. I haven’t tried attaching an ST60 to it but dare say it will work OK, and hopefully without the pod’s quirks. The ST70 manual says you’re not supposed to make that connection if the ST70 is connected to a regular N2K backbone, but a Ray engineer told me he knows no reason why it wouldn’t work. I wouldn’t try making up the patch cable, though, as that’s the weird one where the SeaTalkNG sixth socket is active.
Not much new on this ST70 thread, i hope a guru is still out there.
Hoping for some good news here……..a little disappointed with naivco/simrad/b&g and my Zeus Z8 and certainly the ST70s, PODs ad Raymarine.
I have 4 ST70s and a Wind, Speed/Temp, & Depth Transducers and corresponding PODS. All connected with Raymarine SeatalkNG
I have a B&G Z8 NMEA 2000 chartplotter, a SimRad NMEA 2000 GPS, and a SimRad NMEA 2000 tilt/heel compass.
How do I see the PODs and their data, as they electrically sit on the NMEA 2000 network and the ST70s and see them…………but nobody else can?
OR i can see the ST70s but they report as INVALID on the NMEA system by the Navico/Simrad/B&G system.
What can i do? I really want wind from the Ray POD? The B&G does laylines and polars and etc which ray has no product for.
The PODs since 2008 have claimed electrical and NMEA 2000 compatibility and still do in Ray marekting fluff and etc
How come a $200 GPS simrad device works and is seen on the network, but the PODs are invisible OR an ST70 that controls them and calibrates them does not pass the data either?
I KNOW people have hooked them up? Advice etc. PODs are at Wind v5.02, speed v4.02, and Depth at latest via “Lee” a few days ago. ALL 4 ST70s are at v3.04 as of THIS week after a $50 trip to Ray marine.
Still NO go!
Help? I expanded this system instead of going with Nexus because I thought ST70s and PODS spoke NMEA 2000? Hopefully a solution instead of buying Sealtalk converter and putting up a Seatalk network also??????
Thomas, I only did this one experiment with a Ray STtoSTng Pod but I’m surprised by your problem. This era of Ray gear is not good at the background NMEA 2000 stuff like seeing and picking sensor sources (and the latest era is only so-so), but I’ve not seen problems sharing or displaying standard PGNs.
I suggest that you super simplify your system and then build it back up in order to flush out the bug. For starters I’d unplug everything except the depth pod and the Zeus. Do the Zeus’s Network utilities recognize the depth PGN then? If so, then add an ST70. If everything works, then add another. You’re looking for when those ST70’s show up as Invalid and/or when the pod data stops appearing on the Zeus.
Ben,
Thank you so much for the reply and advice. It the difference between being single handed and having crew? somebody to talk to and discuss and get confidance. I can go forward as long as i know WHERE i am heading even if no land!
Sounds like a good plan. The PODs shoudl be or see to able to exist alone except for califbration and adjustments which only the ST70s seem to have the right drivers…….. So i will strip it down. here is the cockpit view
http://www.l-y-n-c-h.com/Akula/content/20120619_9999_large.html and here is the bleow deck in the Nav station. http://www.l-y-n-c-h.com/Akula/content/20120508_9999_large.html and to your point – VERY BASIC. I will take it all out and focus on geting one POD to talk to the Z8. A wise start! again thanks and glad this thread is alive.