MIBS 2017: Furuno standalone 1815 radar, DFF-3D multimodal sonar & more

Ben Ellison

Ben Ellison

Panbo editor, publisher & chief bottlewasher from 4/2005 until 8/2018, and now pleased to have Ben Stein as a very able publisher, webmaster, and editing colleague. Please don't regard him as an "expert"; he's getting quite old and thinks that "fadiddling fumble-putz" is a more accurate description.

9 Responses

  1. Ben Ellison Ben Ellison says:

    Detail on Furuno X-Class radar ARPA and MARPA with Fast Target Tracking: They can automatically acquire up to 30 targets with a guard zone that can be variably set from 0.1 to 24 miles, or some of 30 maximum can be acquired anywhere manually.
    Meanwhile, with Doppler assistance the NXT radome can get 40 ARPA targets anywhere within 3 NM, another 30 ARPA within a custom guard zone out to 24nm, plus 30 manual anywhere for 100 total.

  2. PaRaDoX says:

    The “Triple Beam” view and the “Cross-Section” view (called “Swath” or “Vertical” on the Wassp) are really the ones who are in fact useful.
    On our 160 kHz Wassp we basically NEVER use the simulated Sidescan-view or the integrated 3D environment that you can pan and zoom around in. They are more or less useless when it comes to real-world usage.
    Worth to note is that the Triple Beams have selectable Beam Width and Angle of Attack so you can freely choose from how many elements in the Swath each of the three echograms are generated from. Very useful.
    In the commercial market the Wassp will probably be outcompeted by the new ATEC400 and the SeaPiX multibeam systems (atleast in Europe) so it is a logical step for Furuno to move downwards in the market segments rather than upwards.

  3. PaRaDoX says:

    Airmar has not yet released any information from their part on this “so-called” B54/B-54 transducer model.
    However from the images from the presentations and also the operator/installation manual one can clearly conclude that there are present 8-wires going into the transducer elements (when motion and temp sensor wiring is deducted).
    This means the transducer itself consists of 4 individual elements and from the videopresentation and brochures one can clearly distinguish 32 beams forming the bottom echo edges/jaggies in the trapezoid.
    So they are beamforming 8 electronic beams from each physical transducer element. Very similar to the Wassp which has 112 or 224 beams which are beamformed from something like 32 or 64 individual elements in the transducer array.
    Our old WMB-160F has an old type molded multicable going from the ducer directly into the beamformer PC but the newer S3/F3 use standard RJ45/Ethernet cabling and there are 8 connectors in total in the WDRX. I guess they run analog signals even though it’s ethernet-cabling.
    So since there is 8 wires (=4 pairs) in each cable it will mean that the most individual number of elements present in the Wassp sounder is 32.
    Either both the old and the new Wassp have the same number of ducers and they just improved the beamforming (electronically giving them more beams) or the old one actually only had 16 transducer elements. I do not know which it is but I am guessing that there actually where 32 in the old one also.
    So in all essence: the DFF-3D has 8 times LESS resolution across the Swath compared to the WASSP. Still impressive though!

  4. Rick O says:

    Does the DFF3D offer backward compatibility to NN3D (non-touch) systems? I have a black ox NN3D system, with MaxSea Professional running on an interfaced PC, with a DFF3 fishfinder. With MaxSea software, I am able to create and view, in 3D, bathymetric data, which NN3D cannot do. Although I doubt that the NN3D system will ever be updated to accommodate the new functionality of DFF3D, perhaps MaxSea will be? Anyone know or have any insights?

  5. PaRaDoX says:

    From what I have understood from my local Furuno dealership there will never be any form of possibility to do permanent bottom mapping with the DFF-3D, either with connection to MaxSea or within the TZT units. This is because it would cannibalize of the sales of the Wassp system. All the 3D data that is generated in the 3D view are only “temporary” and is thrown away after a certain amount of time.
    However I find it highly likely that they will incorporate a possibility to watch the live feed via NavNet from the DFF-3D inside MaxSea/TimeZero since they have done so with the FCV-1150 and even the FCV-1900 echosounders.
    It’s really a shame since if they would allow bathymetric profiling with the DFF-3D inside TimeZero it would be a super intresting alternative for those where a full Wassp system is clearly out of reach, be it moneywise or spacewise.
    Furuno JP have done the exact same thing when it comes to radars. Before the release of the FAR-3000 radar the price for a FAR-2117-X-BB was approx 9,000-10,000 Euros or similar. When they realized no one was buying the 3000 because the 2117 was so highly acclaimed AND competetively priced they bumped the price of the 2117 up to the 13,000-14,000 Euro range.
    THEN they released the FAR-1500 in both IMO and non-IMO versions at a competetive price range, but they where smart enough to lower the resolution of the PPI to 1024×768 instead of 1280×1024 for the 2117 (or the FullHD of the 3000) so IMO would not WheelMark-approve the radar for larger vessels or bigger screens. The FAR-1500 with FullHD support would be such a killer radar that all competetion could just file for bankrupcy… So it’s a big shame…
    I guess the Furuno sales department in Japan feels they are really really smart – only problem is their move will just make everyone angry and drive sales like crazy for JRC and their very low priced ConstaView IMO approved radars.
    So my theory is no bathymetric function for the DFF-3D – I hope I am wrong…

  6. Kevin K says:

    I asked MaxSea about the possibility of recording multibeam data with the DFF-3D in much the same way the single beam systems work for their PBG module, and here was the response:
    “Thank you for contacting us. Indeed, we are currently developing the compatibility of TZ Professional with the new Furuno’s DFF-3D. This solution should be available by 2018, but we can’t guarantee a specific date.”
    So it looks like I’ll be upgrading my boat sometime after the functionality comes up. I don’t really have much use for the DFF-3D until I can record bottom structure with it.

  7. Anonymous says:

    Thanks for your insights PaRaDoX. I have a full Furuno system (TZProfv3, TZT14, DFF1-UHD etc) and have been frustrated trying to get access to all the data generated to manipulate, validate and integrate it. But I do like the hardware. So I am looking hard at other systems where I own the data.

  8. PaRaDoX says:

    That is the direct opposite of what my Furuno dealership is telling me, but if the guys at Informatique is publicly stating they’re working on it, they would of course know better… But perhaps they missunderstood your mail and what they ARE working on are an implementation of WATCHING the DFF-3D data inside MaxSea/TZ and not a Multibeam-PBG solution.
    But sounds very interesting. I hope they are working on it with full PBG support, that would be like a Wassp-Mini for smaller boats that cannot afford the Wassp.
    The FEC boardmembers in Japan really need to sort their fear of cannibalization and invite some Silicon Valley folks to preach Disruption theory for them…

  9. Kevin K says:

    It does indeed look like TimeZero Professional v3.3 will ve able to record bathymetry data from the DFF-3D. There are a few Facebook posts starting to go around from Furuno Fishing Fanatics and TimeZero:
    From TZ: TZ Professional connected to the Furuno DFF3D can record 50 depth points per second!

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